Matt Johnson on 'Nirvanna the Band the Show the Movie,' His Anthony Bourdain Biopic, and Making 'Magic'

Happy Friday, folks!

I have a special treat for you this afternoon, as I’m joined by Matt Johnson, the writer-director-producer-actor extraordinaire who is perhaps best known for directing and starring in the acclaimed indie BlackBerry.

I’ve followed Johnson’s career since its early days at the Sundance Film Festival, where he premiered The Dirties and Project Avalanche. Through it all, he’s also been one half of the fictional “Nirvanna the Band” alongside his best friend, Jay McCarroll.

The Canadian duo met in high school in Mississauga and have been working together ever since, starting with the 2007 web series Nirvana the Band the Show, which became a TV show (with a third ’n’) a decade later after it was picked up for a two-season run on Viceland.

A third season remains unfinished, but it could be released if Nirvanna the Band the Show the Movie is successful in theaters this weekend. The film is full of hilarious visual gags and the kind of winning chemistry between best friends that powered movies like Clerks and Good Will Hunting. If you’re still on the fence after those comps, then I urge you to read my interview with Johnson below.

As with all interviews here at The InSneider, this one is not behind a paywall, so if you’re an unpaid subscriber who digs it, I sure would appreciate it if you made the leap to premium for a month and placed a modest bet on yours truly. Your patronage allows me to continue doing these interviews and making them available for free.

Without further ado, here’s Matt Johnson…

Matt Johnson on Nirvanna the Band the Show the Movie, His Anthony Bourdain Biopic, and Making Magic

Matt Johnson is “one of us” — a dyed-in-the-wool film geek who loves Magic: The Gathering and Back to the Future. The difference between Johnson and the rest of “us,” of course, is that he’s been working in the industry for nearly half his life as a writer, director, producer, and actor.

He didn’t just talk about loving movies; he channeled that love into actually making them.

Not only has Johnson become a talented storyteller since starting out in 2007, but I think he has developed into a uniquely compelling screen presence with an expressive face beneath his wild mop of hair. Said presence is key to the success of his new film, Nirvanna the Band the Show the Movie, as he’s the comic engine who powers its madcap hijinks.

The entire story seems to run off Matt's chaotic energy, which is balanced by that of his better half, if you will, Jay McCarroll, who is typically called upon to serve as the straight man of the duo.

In Nirvanna the Band the Show the Movie, Matt and Jay use a magical Orbitz bottle to time-travel back to 2008, when movie audiences had a very different sense of humor, and some of our most beloved celebrities were hiding dark secrets.

The movie is frequently hilarious, especially as it establishes its kooky premise, while a pulse-pounding parachute jump off Toronto’s CN Tower had my palms sweating as I laughed at the sheer balls of the scrappy indie production.

Nirvanna the Band the Show the Movie is destined to be a cult classic comedy — the kind that plays at midnight at rep houses across the country. It’s sweet, it’s funny, and it’s under 100 minutes. What’s not to like?

Below, Johnson talks about the reception of BlackBerry, the distinct sense of humor behind Nirvanna the Band the Show the Movie, whether it’s the most Canadian film ever made, the comic books he’d love to see adapted, and his upcoming Anthony Bourdain biopic, which is expected to be released in theaters later this year by A24. Enjoy!

So take me back to the days after BlackBerry, which earned great reviews. Who are you most surprised to hear from in the wake of its success? What kinds of offers materialized from Hollywood? And why did you ultimately decide to go back to your roots to make this movie with Jay?

Matt Johnson: Interesting… Well, my life definitely changed. I couldn't believe the response that BlackBerry got, especially in Los Angeles.

The craziest opportunity that I got was making the Magic card movie, which I’m still directing. I had written a Magic: The Gathering movie a decade ago and tried to pitch it in Hollywood, but of course, nobody would even listen to me. And so that was definitely the biggest change, because that’s a lifelong dream of mine.

But to answer your question as to why I immediately went and made an even smaller Canadian independent film, it’s because the system works in my country. We have this amazing arts funding for movies called Telefilm Canada, which produced BlackBerry.

And because that film was such a success, I realized I had a very small window where, before I went off to make another movie that was kind of the same size as BlackBerry or bigger, I could do something very quickly with my friends, and the Canadian government would finance it. We wouldn't need anybody else's help. I could just make something really small, really fast.

And that turned into a 200-day shoot that took me two years to finish. So, in true Nirvanna the Band fashion, Matt had this really great idea that was going to go so well until it just kept blowing up thanks to disaster after disaster. In the end, it just kind of squeaked across the finish line in flames.

Do you think that U.S. filmmakers would benefit from some kind of government arts council similar to Telefilm? I'm just curious what your take is on the current state of indie cinema and whether we're doomed or whether it's a great time to be an indie filmmaker. 

Johnson: This question has honestly been asked since I was in film school. It's hard for me to give an opinion on the state of the industry or whether or not I think the American versus the Canadian system is, quote-unquote, “better” because we're in an ecosystem where we're all interacting.

So, do I think that arts funding in America would be better? I don't know. Your country's so big, and you have so much free-floating, for lack of a better term, venture capital that is financing so many projects every single year that we just don’t have in the rest of the world, that you have to wonder if adding a government tendril to that would be useful or if the system would just be gamed?

I could see it being a net negative in my country. I mean, how many Canadian films can you name? Right? It's not like the arts funding has been a roaring success. In some ways, it's a program that is used to maintain an industry and just allow artists to work, period, for very, very small audiences. And that is not the intention of the American Hollywood system.

You guys make movies for everybody in the world to see. Even the smallest indie movie, if it blows up at Sundance, is not meant for a small audience. Those films are meant for world audiences.

And so, I think our models are very different. That said, I think there's never been a better time for independent filmmakers, mostly because the tools are so cheap. In some ways, Nirvanna the Band the Show the Movie is a how-to guide for film students on how to make a movie.

Not that you would make a movie like that, but the only thing stopping you is the will to go out and shoot something — as we're seeing more and more with YouTubers, etc., all making movies.

Do you think Nirvanna the Band the Show the Movie is the most distinctly Canadian film ever made?

Johnson: Canada struggles with a lack of cultural identity. So, to say that something is the most Canadian is hard, because what defines being Canadian?

Scott Pilgrim vs. the World, which is an American movie directed by Brit and starring a Canadian, has always been seen as the most Canadian movie ever, because at the opening of the movie, they have a chyron that says, “In Toronto, Canada…” and the movie talks about being Canadian.

But to be totally honest, it's not for me to say. I make movies in my country, in my city, about Canadians, and I view it from a very Canadian lens, but I'm in the water, so I can't see what I'm doing.

Why do you think audiences are laughing at some of the visual gags about Bill Cosby and Jared Fogel? Is it a way of forgiving ourselves for having been duped back then? 

Johnson: No, I don't think forgiveness has anything to do with it. I think that when you tickle somebody in a place they haven't been tickled in a long time, you get a real reaction. So I think that collectively, it’s so exciting to revisit anything from the past that is now taboo, simply because we can collectively go, “Ah, yes, there it is — the taboo.”

I'm always attracted to things that are considered taboo because “taboo” is close to the “sacred,” right? If something is taboo, then it has a kind of magic around it, and so I don't think it's as simple as saying that “That’s a collective mea culpa” by putting them on screen. I think there's something else going on there.

Who is the below-the-line collaborator who was the most key to making this movie happen? 

Johnson: To be totally honest, we're all below-the-line on this movie. It was such a grimy production that everybody was doing everything. But I will answer your question sincerely, as I think that the person who will never get enough credit for this movie is our production designer, Kerry Noonan.

He's the guy who, along with his team, built the year 2008. He rebuilt Queen Street in 2008. He built that RV piece by piece. He built the apartment that the guys live in, and the old apartment, too. So much of his work is so good that it's invisible.

Kerry’s name rarely comes up, but he absolutely deserves more credit than he gets because he was a key collaborator on this film.

You've been in this business for nearly 20 years now, so looking back, do you have any regrets, and is there anything that you would have done differently?

Johnson: It's a great question. Like, if I had a time machine, what would I do? It's hard because I am myself, and so for me to go back and change something, I have no idea what that would do. I can only say this — well, two things.

I wish I had worked harder, and I wish that I had found a way to always be slightly nicer. And that doesn't mean that I don't think back to the way that I was, or even the way that I am now, and think, “Oh, I was particularly short-tempered.” But when I think back to the hard struggles that you go through with every movie — even this movie, we're currently working on the DVD, so I'm getting to watch a bunch of the behind-the-scenes stuff from it — and the frustration that you feel when things aren’t coming together, in retrospect, you laugh at it.

It's like, “Well, who cares that this was so hard? It’s done.” So, yeah, I always think that I could have worked way, way harder, and that I could have had a better attitude.

Do you feel like success has changed you at all? 

Johnson: I have not experienced success, so we'll see.

As far as the Anthony Bourdain biopic coming up, what can you tell us about the period of his life that it's going to cover, and when can we expect to see it? Are you aiming for a TIFF debut? Is there a release date in mind? 

Johnson: I mean, the release date is completely up to A24. I believe it's going to be this year, but outside of that, I don't know.

But the entire movie takes place specifically in the summer of 1975. I had funneled everything I read, and everything that I heard from the people in his life who are still alive — a lot of them in Provincetown — and all of that got siphoned into this one summer. So it draws on things that happened before and things that happened after.

It unites a lot of Anthony Bourdain's early stories into one summer, so we’re playing some games that way. But that is the trick of the movie — you're watching one summer of this kid's life.

Why did Bourdain’s story appeal to you, and why was Dominic Sessa from The Holdovers the right guy to play him?

Johnson: You just answered the first question with the second, which is that I sat down and met with Dominic, since I didn't know him, and this was before I was even interested in making a movie about Anthony Bourdain.

He and I started talking, and talking about New Jersey and him as a hockey player, and what his life was like going to this private school. And it's like my mind just lit up with all of these connections.

You know what I love? There's this concept that Carl Jung has, where the fictional world touches the real world. I forget the term he uses for it; it might even be “synchronicity.” But it's like these few moments where something real touches something fictional, and there's a magic to that that you cannot describe. I think he actually uses Jesus Christ as an example of this, where a fictional character ^enters the real world.

And whether it happened or not, it doesn't matter. It has a power to it. And I viewed this as that, where I was meeting this young man who seemed as though he'd lived the same life [as Tony’s] in so many different ways, even though they're totally different people, living in totally different times. And I was just so drawn to that.

I’m told you’re a huge comic book collector, so is there a comic book that you'd want to maybe adapt one day, or at least see adapted?

Johnson: You know what? Yes. There are a lot, so I'll just say two examples.

First, I think there are a lot of people who think that The Invisibles basically got chewed apart by The Matrix, and it could never be turned into a movie now, but I disagree. I think that The Invisibles is timeless, and yes, The Matrix ripped it off up and down, and The Umbrella Academy ripped off the other half of it, but given the times we're living in, I think The Invisibles would be an amazing movie or series.

It's so evil what's been done to Grant Morrison. But I don't know that The Invisibles would necessarily be my first answer because that would be extremely complicated.

I think that you could make an amazing, almost, like, grounded but surreal TV series based on 100 Bullets that would blow people's minds. I think the world-building in that around Virginia, the original colony, and “Croatoan…” there's enough American history in that comic book series, even though it's just seen as, like, violent mayhem, that I think people would go crazy. I'm shocked that it hasn't been adapted yet.

That's a great answer. Before I let you go, when can fans expect to see the final season of Nirvanna the Band the Show? 

Johnson: Let's see how the movie does first. I'm hoping that Neon has the rights to our entire TV show, because my dream, as everybody knows, has always been to release a third season. I thought I could do it by making Blackberry, but then I realized, no, Blackberry's only going to allow me to make a Nirvanna the Band movie, and maybe that will allow me to release Season 3 of the show.

And before I let you go, I have to compliment you on your framed art. Everything is so up my alley — literally every piece. This is unbelievable. You have an excellent collection.

Well, we’re roughly the same age and have similar tastes, but thank you very much for that compliment. I appreciate it. And thank you for taking the time to chat with me today, Matt. Good luck with the movie!

Johnson: Thank you, and it was great to finally meet you, Jeff!

Nirvanna the Band the Show the Movie is now playing in theaters nationwide.

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